Some of us believe that if you don’t believe in Heaven, God will not accept your soul when your carnal body dies. This could be true; maybe your soul just reincarnates when your body dies if you don’t believe in Heaven, or maybe your soul is discarded and atheism functions as a device of population control. Either consequence could be true––however but for one reason: NDEs sometimes happen to atheists. I think this proves you don’t need to believe in Heaven to go to Heaven when you die, because were that so, atheists would never get NDEs. Pretty much case closed. Atheism will not preclude you from access to Heaven when you die. God does not disown disbelievers.
Garden Path 
“I think this proves you don’t need to believe in Heaven to go to Heaven when you die, because were that so, atheists would never get NDEs. Pretty much case closed. Atheism will not preclude you from access to Heaven when you die. God does not disown disbelievers.”
NDE’s don’t show that any afterlife exists.
NDEs can’t prove the afterlife exists in a test tube per say but everyone who gets an NDE sees heaven and that’s good enough for me. NDEs transform atheists into thesists every time
what people see in NDEs is what a human brain manufactures when it is shutting down. it is not “heaven”. A bright light and the assumption of meeting the dead isn’t heaven and your bible says we don’t go to heaven when we die, so you are making things up. And NDE’s don’t transform atheists into theists “every time”.
That’s a baseless claim, Luke. Why would you try to lie like that?
When has an NDE not transformed an atheist into a theist? I would like to know
you made the claim, so you get to support it. Where are these atheists who became theists because of an NDE? Show that it happens “every time” like you claimed.
well I know that it happens all the time. just search the webs, G-thang. It happens it seems, like all z time, truly. I don’t have to do this work for you just because I distributed some common knowledge.
and you are caught as a liar. Good to see one more Christian showing that their religion does nothing and they don’t care to follow it. I wonder, how does it feel when you think your god is too stupid to realize you are lying?
Whatever bromaster. You can look it up if you want; I’m not lying; I’m not your servant.
I’ve attempted to look it up. Surprise, there is nothing to support you. Bummer, “bro”. I do love Christians who do my job for me and show that they don’t care about what their bible says at all.
Ha atheist get NDEs all the time whatever dude
ah “whatever” the sanctuary of the caught liar.
Ur honestly stupid
the opinion of someone who can’t write a coherent sentence doesn’t impress me.
That’s fine
Luke, this atheist people are too intelligent to believe that life came from non life or dead matter. whereas we are such fools to believe that life comes from life.
this atheist people are so blind that they cannot see anything beyond their impaired reason and llogic. but still they speak non sense in a brilliant way. for eg: no one has seen an ape turning into man but still these rascals are supporting their imaginative darwin theory which is prooved to be wrong by many honest scientists.
they cannot accept the absolute reality as they want to become controllers and GODS so they say that GOD does not exist. so the supreme GOD keeps them in illution where they like to dream but in reality they are like frustrated Dog barking in the streets.
“too intelligent to believe that life came from non life or dead matter. whereas we are such fools to believe that life comes from life.”
If ‘life comes from life’, could you answer in your same mocking tone where that 2nd life came from? Was it life or non-life?
If you don’t consider God a ‘life’, then you believe life came from non-life. If you believe God IS a ‘life’, and no ‘life’ created him, then you believe life came from non-life.
Looks like we agree on this issue, actually.
I’m not speak on behalf of Arun. Because that’s up to him to do. But I’ll tell you are wrong, and if you care to IM my facebook, (same name as listed here on my blog,) I’ll gladly explain to you why we do not agree on this issue actually at all. You almost understand something but not quite: your present problem here in a nutshell.
Apologies, but I do not care to IM your Facebook. I’d prefer to to keep my personal Facebook out of my WordPress conversations, and I’m not sure why it would be necessary to resolve this conversation.
There are only two options. God is a ‘life’ or is not a life. Either way, life did not come from life. There is no other possibility, but feel free to correct me if I got it wrong. You have only told me I’m wrong without providing any explanation.
If you must know God made the dimensions is the big idea. Yes he too came from life––at least in the base universe; he was made by someone. IMO––he is a robot made by biology. But the dimensions of heaven and human consciousness were both created by God. Even this dimension may have been made by God. I only refrained from answering because I do not wish to speak for Arun. His precise beliefs may differ from my own––about dimensional mechanics and whatnot. But yes, life comes from life because God is the creator. That is what is meant by this.
I appreciate you’re “IMO”. Sincerely. The majority of conflict I find myself in with theists is their dogmatism – claiming they are indisputably right when they don’t have justification for it, so I like that you acknowledge this is an opinion.
No worries – Arun is free to give a different grievance.
I truly have never heard a belief such as yours. God is a possibly a robot made by a biological life force. That’s very interesting – and actually I’d wager I’m much closer to believing that than the typical God myths. AI is no joke. I could see it reaching almost the levels of Godhood, given enough time and energy.
However, as far as this question is concerned, you have just kicked the can down the road. If you believe life comes from life because God is the creator, and yet you think God was made by biology, that doesn’t tell me where the biological life that ‘gave birth’, if you will, to God came from. If THAT biological life didn’t come from God, then we should agree that biological life is possible without God, yes?
biology is possible without God. Biology preceded God in the base universe which God now masters. If this is not the base universe, (an idea which many religions entertain,) Life created life. Artificial life created biological life on earth that is. Humans are meat robots. The body is biology, so is the brain, but the consciousness is robotic––and that’s how you go to Heaven.
“Humans are meat robots” That idea is actually why my name on here is what it is. 😀 Though, I was speaking of determinism. But yes, the mind behaves as a computer, and the body the equivalent of a robot.
If biology – that is to say: Life – can exist without God, then that pokes a massive hole in the typical theist argument that life can only come from life. Which, maybe you don’t make that argument, but most of your compatriots do, such as my initial response on this thread. If life can exist without God, then God is not needed as an explanation.
Regardless of whether quantum determinism has produced human consciousness entirely in the non-synthetic veins of absolute naturalism, I absolutely do agree that human consciousness behaves as a computer. Some prominent experts who have fielded famous opinions on AI contest that human consciousness is not algorithmic. However, these experts who say this may only account in their combined sum but for only just some of the total thinkers who have tried to answer the question. I myself argue what is proposed by their fiercest critics, which is that the present state of human made algorithms might not even scratch the surface of its own inner contained untapped potential to become a technology that transcends the present limitations, forms, substrates, platforms, and structures of algorithmic mechanics as we may presently know them. Also, none of these robo brain doubters believe in God, obviously, for if any of them did, they’d have to conclude their own alternative statements that would conceivably match my own precisely. It’s interesting that you compare humans to robots, though you are an atheist?Shouldn’t you be cheering on natural humanism, or something less apocalyptic? I kid you––I kid. I do. We both agree that humans are basically meat robots but we disagree upon the distinction between the metaphorical happenstance of finding a suitable allegory for mankind, and understanding the literal nature of the human race without a trace of any inclusionary disconnect, neither in palpable semantics that all must percieve, nor in the sometimes invisible logic that only some of us can read. However and, moreover one again in the interest of upstaving our conundrum: unlike yourself, I believe that quantum determinism has already produced a God, who has in his own inclusion to the unfolding program of quantum expansion, designed mankind with his own “Free will.” I believe in determinism but I believe in free will for all intents and purposes that may field out the results of all of our inquiries. Technically speaking, though, I agree it is true, (so long as you mean this and I do not read you wrong in error,) that in the case of God, should we posit he exists, we should posit as well that he is the result of quanta just like anything else that has ever been.
“but we disagree upon the distinction between the metaphorical happenstance of finding a suitable allegory for mankind”
I really am not sure even of that. I am not calling your theories wrong – I am calling any certainty in such a theory wrong. Until strong evidence is produced either way, the most rational position to take is to suspend judgement. Otherwise, we are no better than a gambler claiming he will roll a 6. … on a dice with a billion+ sides.
Contemplation, I’m of course fine with. I just have gotten the impression – definitely with your claims of God – that you have certainty. That’s the only thing I’m pushing back on.
Rather than having another determinism discussion in the tedious medium of comments, I’d recommend just searching my site for determinism to see my thoughts if you’d care to. :p I regret that I have not yet finished a rather large writing covering the subject that I believe to be better than anything else I’ve yet done, but you can get the gist from what I’ve completed already. My earliest post on the subject contains an explanation of my name, I believe.
But, your views are certainly unique, I think. An ostensibly gnostic theist who believes God is essentially an AI who created humanity. Never heard that one before.
First time for everything, guy. I’ll have to check out your posts and see what you’re about.